The therapeutic value of curcumin makes it a fabulous recommendation as both a foundational and medicinal supplement. And since finding a preparation that is bioavailable is key to efficacy, affordability, and patient compliance, I’m excited to have Dr. Sonia Malani (on behalf of Integrative Therapeutics) here to talk about the latest advances in curcumin deliverability and why it matters.
Join us as Dr. Malani breaks down the progress of curcumin deliverability and the keys to bioavailability in a way that is simple to understand and easy to pass on to our patients. I know you’ll enjoy this curcumin talk, and learn a ton from this latest research. Thanks for listening! ~DrKF
Current research backs up what Indian culture and Ayurvedic medicine have known for centuries: Curcumin has the ability to support a healthy inflammatory response, joint health, muscle recovery, detoxification, the immune system, and ability to favorably influence gene expression.
Yet no matter how medicinal the plant, if you can’t successfully get it into the cell, therapeutic value is minimized. And curcumin has long been known to have poor absorption and quick clearance, making it challenging and expensive to deliver in therapeutic quantities. Until now. New advances in how to transform the structure of curcumin may change that.
Dr. Sonia Malani, board certified physician, author, and researcher, is here today to walk us through the progress that’s been made around curcumin delivery, from adding piperine, to liposomal preparations to the latest developments with curcuRouge that have shifted the form from crystalline to amorphous to significantly increase water stability and bioavailability, leading to better efficacy and patient compliance.
In this episode of New Frontiers, learn about:
- The reason curcumin is so poorly absorbed and what researchers have discovered to improve bioavailability
- The challenges with over-the-counter (OTC) supplements
- What our patients need to know about standardized curcumin, dosage, and the form of delivery when it comes to getting therapeutic results
- Why getting therapeutic doses of curcumin from diet alone is nearly impossible
- Does taking curcumin with black pepper and fat improve absorption?
- How improving bioavailability improves efficacy and patient compliance, and reduces cost by using fewer pills to deliver the same dose
- Could curcumin’s favorable effects on gene expression be the reason behind its therapeutic effects for so many conditions?
- Considerations on dosing and how to take the new curcuRouge preparations
- Current clinical trials evaluating the efficacy of curcuRouge
Dr. Kara Fitzgerald: Hi everybody. Welcome to New Frontiers in Functional Medicine where we are interviewing the best minds in functional medicine. Of course, today is no exception. Let me give you a little background on this podcast and introduce you to my amazing guest today, and we will jump right in. Today’s podcast is sponsored by Integrative Therapeutics. For over 35 years, patients and clinicians have trusted Integrative Therapeutics for their dedication to quality, potency, and accuracy, and bring you exclusive products backed by science.
Dr. Sonia Malani, FABNO, is my guest today. She’s a board certified physician, author, and researcher. She’s actually engaged in some pretty cool epigenetic research as we speak, I just learned. She graduated from Bastyr University, followed by a residency at AIMS Institute in Seattle. Tenacious in understanding the root cause of disease, she’s actively conducting research, currently working on clinical trials for complex cases and to support thrivers nationwide. Dr. Malani, welcome, welcome, welcome to New Frontiers.
Dr. Sonia Malani: Thank you. It’s so wonderful to be here.
Dr. Kara Fitzgerald: Well, let’s dive in. So we’re going to talk about the wonderment of curcumin, all things curcumin. So, tell me about the history and just some of the amazing uses through time.
Dr. Sonia Malani: Yes. All right. Well, I’m actually coming to you live from India, so it’s a perfect opportunity to speak about curcumin.
Dr. Kara Fitzgerald: Yes, true.
Dr. Sonia Malani: It’s such a well-known Ayurvedic and Indian spice. So, curcumin has been around for a very, very long time. It’s the medical constituent of the turmeric root. We’re probably all familiar with the turmeric root. We’ve seen the turmeric powder at grocery stores, but that component that has medicinal properties to it is known as curcumin. It’s been used in Ayurvedic medicine for a very, very long time and has been used, I think most people know it as something that helps promote a really healthy inflammatory response. It’s still used in that regard today. It’s been around for so, so long, but the beautiful thing about it now is that there’s an abundance of research that’s being done on curcumin and really being shown now using modern scientific methods. We’re now able to show what we’ve known in the Indian culture and the Ayurvedic culture for a very, very long time. Yeah, we’re going to dive into it today.
Dr. Kara Fitzgerald: Well, tell me. I just want to dig into it a little bit more because you are in India and do have a nice position you sit in to understanding both uses. So it was recognized as being for inflammation way back in the day. How did they describe it and how did they use it, just out of curiosity?
Dr. Sonia Malani: Yeah. Well, turmeric has always been really innate to the Indian spices and Indian cooking, so it’s used in almost every single majority of dishes. It has that potent yellow color to it, so if you see some Indian foods, whether it’s rice or things like dhokla that have that yellow tinge to it, that yellow is coming from the turmeric. So, not only was it used for its medicinal properties, but it was also used for its beautiful color to make the food look vibrant and look appealing, but from an Ayurvedic perspective, it’s been used by so many amazing Ayurvedic doctors as something that can help promote a healthy inflammatory response, something used in joint health, something used in muscle recovery and thinking about how to support the overall body and the musculoskeletal system. Then also it’s in some formulations for detoxification as well as some immune support as well. Again, it’s pretty amazing to see science confirm what the Ayurvedic doctors have been telling us for so long in terms of what curcumin can really do for the human body.
Dr. Kara Fitzgerald: Let me just add to that a really enormous exclamation point, in my opinion. As you and I were talking about, I’m also engaged in research looking at epigenetic or gene expression via patterns of DNA methylation. It’s no surprise that we see curcumin in cell studies. I have to say, these are cell studies. This body of research and looking at gene expression is relatively new, but we can see curcumin being what I call in my world an epi-nutrient, meaning that it influences in this really elegant and favorable way in cell studies the favorable gene expression. I just think that is so cool. I can say that one of my speculations, my personal thinking is that some of these pleomorphic benefits of curcumin, will we discover that there’s something rooted in its ability to really nuance favorable gene expression?
Dr. Sonia Malani: Right. Yeah, and that goes into how do we deliver curcumin properly, right? It is extracted from the turmeric root, but curcumin is poorly absorbed and very quickly excreted or eliminated, and that’s another part of it. I think part of the reason why it’s been used in food and used in cooking is because synergistically, there’s more absorption when it’s combined with a lot of those things. Something that a lot of people are also probably familiar with is the concept of golden milk or adding turmeric to a cup of milk.
Dr. Kara Fitzgerald: Yes.
Dr. Sonia Malani: Part of the reason why that was so popular and derived in the Indian culture is because when you combine curcumin or turmeric with the fat, like the fat in milk, you actually increase the bioavailability and increase the absorption, so there’s been all of these different preparations over the past hundreds of years that have tried to figure out. Well, we know curcumin is so amazing, but how do we actually get the amazing benefits out of it?
Originally, one way that it was started in the supplement industry was combining curcumin with black pepper or piperine because the concept of potentially increasing thermogenesis was something that actually derived also from Ayurvedic medicine. The stomach is known as that organ that contains your fire. That stomach acid has a lot of heat and has this fire to it, so if you can increase that fire using black pepper, then you could in theory increase the absorption of curcumin. So that was one original way that it was delivered to a mass population.
Dr. Kara Fitzgerald: Did that bear out? I mean, combining it? I mean, there are definitely product designs. There’s certainly talk about always using it with pepper. Is there evidence for that being the case?
Dr. Sonia Malani: There is evidence that combining curcumin with black pepper is better than combining it without anything. Right?
Dr. Kara Fitzgerald: Okay.
Dr. Sonia Malani: However, there has been a lot of advancements in curcumin delivery technologies.
Dr. Kara Fitzgerald: Before you go too sophisticated, I want to back up because I do want to hear about curcumin delivery systems. I think that’s essential, but I want to know whether we can actually achieve enough in our diet. I’m always suggesting to people, I love golden milk. I love it. I love a good mug of golden milk or a delicious curry. I mean, I will say that I tend to supplement, and we can talk about that a little more because I’m not consuming it every day. So question number one, can we get enough in our diet? Can we get enough? Can we deliver enough, or would we need to be eating like we were in India where it’s basically introduced into everything? Can we achieve it and we need to combine it with fat, and we need to combine it with pepper? Anyways, just speak to whether we can do that.
Dr. Sonia Malani: Yes. Okay, so I love this question because this is one of the things that I love educating patients on. I find that pretty much every patient comes to me saying like, “Oh, I’m already taking turmeric. I’m already taking curcumin. I’m already doing everything right,” but I love breaking down what the body needs versus what you’re getting in some of the supplements. Let me just also tell you.
For example, a teaspoon of fresh turmeric, so the turmeric powder has about 200 milligrams of curcumin in it, and clinical doses range anywhere from 1,000 milligrams up to 8,000 milligrams. So if you think about it, on average, usually I’m recommending around 2,000 milligrams or two grams, so that’s about 10 teaspoons of turmeric powder, which is a lot if you’ve tried to eat that. Normally in Indian cooking, it’s used as a pinch, again to give that vibrant color, so it’s really not consumed, at least in the South Asian diet, in that mass amount. Is it possible to get enough from food? Potentially, but I really do think if we’re able to work with some of the advancements in curcumin delivery, then that is a much better route than trying to get up to 10 teaspoons if not more.
Dr. Kara Fitzgerald: Yeah, right. When you’re trying to exert a therapeutic influence, so you’re actually working with patients, it’s different than you’re already really healthy and you’re focused on getting things through food. Yeah. It’s just not even comparable, so when you want to exert a real therapeutic influence, it seems to me that yeah, you’re going to be eating a ton and it’s going to be hard. You’re going to have to eat it with all sorts of fat and so forth. Yeah, I probably would not be successful in that.
Dr. Sonia Malani: From a maintenance perspective, it may be possible. Just again, promoting a healthy inflammatory response and maintaining health. However, like you said, when using it in a more clinical setting, adding 10 teaspoons of turmeric to your golden milk may not be very tasty.
Dr. Kara Fitzgerald: Yeah, no. That’s right. That’s right. I agree. I want to talk about … I have a couple questions. We’re going to move into supplements, but maybe before we go, structurally, why is it so poorly absorbed?
Dr. Sonia Malani: Yeah, so curcumin actually has a crystalline structure, which is the reason why it’s not as bioavailable. When we talk about how to actually get the increase of bioavailability and increase the absorption, that crystalline structure has been the biggest rate-limiting step. How do we get around that, or how do we, again, pair the crystalline structure of curcumin with something that will help increase the absorption? There has been some really amazing advancements in completely changing the structure of curcumin and making it more of an amorphous form, which has increased the bioavailability and absorption significantly.
Dr. Kara Fitzgerald: Huh. Wow, that’s amazing. Okay, so it’s this crystalline structure. We’ve figured out how to tweak it, which increases the bioavailability.
Dr. Sonia Malani: I can give you an example that I think would help. If you think about sugar, sugar has a very crystalline structure as well. If you heat sugar up and then cool it really quickly, what you can create out of that is actually cotton candy. That’s how cotton candy is created.
Dr. Kara Fitzgerald: Oh, that’s cotton candy. I was thinking caramel. Okay.
Dr. Sonia Malani: When you cool it, and your crystalline structure of sugar now becomes amorphous. So when you heat it up, it dissolves, and then when you cool it really quickly, it solidifies back in this amorphous structure, so it’s no longer that crystalline structure, and that’s what allows it to actually melt in your mouth. We all love that cotton candy sensation melting in your mouth, and that’s similar to what we have now with a lot of research. There’s been some amazing developments in curcumin that have been able to create that amorphous structure of curcumin, take the crystalline form and in a very similar fashion to cotton candy, melting it down, cooling it quickly, and creating amorphous structure out of that crystalline structure.
Dr. Kara Fitzgerald: Well, that begs the question then as to how is this amorphous structure therapeutically as active as the crystalline structure?
Dr. Sonia Malani: The submicron-particle, the colloidal dispersion is 27 more times in standard curcumin extract, but the amorphous version is about three times more bioavailable than the submicron one, so we’re seeing a significantly large increase in the bioavailability of this amorphous structure. From a therapeutic benefit, we’re still able to get the therapeutic benefit of curcumin.
Dr. Kara Fitzgerald: Okay, so we’re showing way more bioavailability and clinical outcome.
Dr. Sonia Malani: Right.
Dr. Kara Fitzgerald: Commensurate with that increased bioavailability. Go ahead.
Dr. Sonia Malani: Well, just to speak to the research, that amorphous formulation was shown in a single dose, double-blind, two-way crossover study, and it was shown to be three times more bioavailable than the submicron-particle collateral dispersion. There’s more research that’s underway that’s really exciting as well, using this in more a therapeutic fashion, looking at it in cognitive impairment and things like that. We’re seeing that it has more bioavailability, and now we’re seeing, well, how can we apply that to different situations?
Dr. Kara Fitzgerald: Awesome. Well, it’s really exciting.
Dr. Kara Fitzgerald: All right, so it’s significantly more bioavailable and that’s been demonstrated. We’re using it in clinical practice. I should say I’m not yet, but I am excited to try it. Since I’m learning from you now and we’ve been dialoguing about it, it just sounds incredibly interesting. I appreciate the energy to bring this product forward. Just understanding the attention that’s gone to bring this new preparation forward. I’ll be thrilled to pay attention to the clinical research on it, so I’ve got two questions. My first one is, how are you dosing this differently compared to previous types of curcumin you’ve used in practice?
Dr. Sonia Malani: There was a study that showed the plasma concentration of this new amorphous form of curcumin versus the previous predecessor, which is a submicron-particle colloidal dispersion. What we’re seeing is that the plasma level increases significantly right after dosing this product and then does have more viability throughout the next few hours. So when it comes to dosing, it’s not really necessary to change the dosing recommendations because you’re still getting a significant dose, but you may not have to use as much. If we’re seeing that plasma concentrations are increasing, you may not have to use as much to get the same benefit. From maybe a more holistic perspective, thinking about maybe the financial burden that takes off patients is really amazing because if they don’t have to use as much of their product, and if they can get the same benefit without having to go through bottles and bottles of a curcumin supplement, then that really helps out our patient from the financial strain and stress point as well, so not necessarily changing milligrams or gram dosage recommendations, but we have a product that has a bioavailability, so patients are getting the bang for their buck.
Dr. Kara Fitzgerald: That’s pretty interesting. Again, I have to say, I look forward to trying it out. Let’s talk about other typical curcumin preparations. So, somebody is going to go into the health food store and see 18 different curcumin products. What are those like and what would you say? I know you can’t speak to all the products, but in general, the bioavailability of OTC curcumin products.
Dr. Sonia Malani: Right, and to take you back to the history a little as well, some of the first formulations were using curcumin alongside black pepper. That concept of increasing bioavailability by increasing that thermogenesis that black pepper can create, so that was one of the first iterations. Then companies started using standardized curcumin extract with turmeric essential oil thinking that maybe that could increase the bioavailability. To some extent, it was a better product potentially. Then it moved to liposomal format, so this is when we combined a fat with curcumin, but in more of a phospholipid format. That for a while was a really high quality and increased the bioavailability of curcumin. After that, around that same time also phosphatidylcholine was being used combined with curcumin to increase the bioavailability.
What’s brilliant about all of this, and what really should be appreciated is how much research has gone in to figuring out. We know curcumin is poorly absorbed and excreted very quickly, so there’s been so much research to see how can we keep increasing the bioavailability. I love looking back, seeing all the iterations at the different products and the different formulations, the different delivery technologies to be able to get patients this really amazing medicine.
The most recent formulation of curcumin has been the submicron-particle colloidal dispersion. I know that sounds like a whole bunch of words. Obviously, it’s like a word salad in your mouth, but that was using finely milled turmeric and combining it with glycerin and a vegetable gum called gum ghatti. And that allowed the curcumin to be dispersed a little better. It had more stability in water, and it also allowed the bioavailability to be higher, so those are all the delivery formats that we’ve seen.
To speak to your question, in terms of products and what people are seeing at their pharmacy or grocery store, I think the most important thing is to be reading the labels because what we’ll find is that not every curcumin supplement or curcumin product is standardized to a specific type of curcumin extract. Usually you’ll see on the back of products when it comes to the ones that are combined with black pepper or the turmeric essential oils, that they’ve been standardized to 95% curcumin extract. You want to make sure that you’re getting a product that does have that high percentage of curcumin extract because otherwise you’re in some ways taking a product that doesn’t have enough curcumin in it.
You want to make sure that the standardized extract is there. Then you also want to be speaking to a practitioner who’s educated in this to help you figure out the right dose for your specific situation because as I spoke about earlier, there’s different ways to use curcumin. There’s been a lot of research around using it to help promote a healthy inflammation response and for joint pain and heart health and detoxification pathways, some minor pain relief, sports recovery, so you want to make sure that you’re working with someone who can educate you on how to dose it properly for your situation.
Dr. Kara Fitzgerald: Right. Okay, so then a standardized curcumin product that has reasonable bioavailability could be good, but there’s still going to be a limitation on exactly how bioavailable that is?
Dr. Sonia Malani: Right, and how much you can take. If you are getting a product that maybe is combined with black pepper and it’s only maybe 20 milligrams of curcumin, then you’re going to have to take a lot more pills, multiple times a day potentially in order to get the dose that you may need.
Dr. Kara Fitzgerald: And it’s expensive. Let me just say.
Dr. Sonia Malani: Exactly.
Dr. Kara Fitzgerald: I actually bought some OTC curcumin recently because I ran out, and I do tend to take some most days. It was incredibly expensive and it was standardized, but it was a very low dose. I mean, I just ended up moving through it quite rapidly. Yeah, so it wasn’t economically speaking. There were a ton of capsules and it was a big bottle, but I had to take a ton to really experience benefit. I think that that happens all the time. I think that’s what we’re confronting.
Dr. Sonia Malani: Happens all the time. Either you have to take a lot to get the benefit, or what I see almost daily in clinical practice is clients coming in who are under-dosing, right? Because they’re like, “Oh, the bottle says two capsules, so I’m taking two,” and that’s totally understandable, but unfortunately in two capsules, they may be getting a very small amount of curcumin. I think that’s heartbreaking for me because they’re expecting a result and they’re like, “Oh, I’ve been taking this for months.” I have to educate them that, “Hey, for your situation, we need a little higher dose.”
That’s why for me specifically being in practice and also doing research, it really is important to me that the delivery technology that we’re educating patients on, and in this situation, the amorphous structure of curcumin is well-researched because if it is well-researched and it’s been shown in these trials to actually have that bioavailability and have that peak plasma concentration, then at least we can say with certainty to our patients. “We know you’re taking this product and you’re getting a good quality and you’re getting the right dose.” As a side note, when I was a naturopathic student, I used to be a brand student rep for Integrative Therapeutics. One of the things that we got to do as being the student representatives was we got to fly down to Green Bay where they have their headquarters and warehouses.
Dr. Kara Fitzgerald: Been there. Yeah, go ahead.
Dr. Sonia Malani: Well, we got a site tour, and this was in my first year of medical school, so I was quite impressionable. I was learning a lot about just botanical medicine in general. What was amazing is, you could have all these incredible plants, but if you can’t get the plants in a proper format to the patient, then it doesn’t really matter what plant you’re studying or what plant you’re researching. So, watching Integrative Therapeutics’ process, not only when it comes to quality assurance, but then also the research that they put behind and their in-house teams was really, really amazing because now being in practice, I want to make sure my patients are getting a good quality. When I can say, “Hey. I’m recommending this supplement to you, and I’ve actually been to the warehouse where they make it and I’ve been to their headquarters,” I think it holds a little more weight because your clients know that, “Oh, my doctor has looked into this.” That’s just something I really love about the company is just that they are so transparent with all of that, and it’s really putting the client and the patient first, it feels like to me.
Dr. Kara Fitzgerald: Well, and the other thing to just love on Integrative Therapeutics a little bit, after using them forever. I mean, I was using them in my training as well when I was a student and beyond, but they definitely put some energy into getting the more sophisticated preparations and hanging their hat on these delivery systems where there’s a bunch of science behind it. I mean, we could talk about a lot of the products that they’ve successfully done that with, that I’ve either interviewed them about or written about et cetera over the years. It’s cool, and here they are now moving forward, moving the bar ahead with this curcumin preparation. Prior to this particular preparation, they had what was arguably the best product out there before in the … Well, I’ll let you say the words. Well, I’ll try it. Submicron-particle colloidal dispersion. That was the product that most of us were using in practice, and I think that we still will, but certainly I’ll be kicking the tires on this new product. All right, so what’s the name of this new amorphous curcumin preparation?
Dr. Sonia Malani: Right, so curcuRouge is the name for the delivery format that is the amorphous structure of the curcumin. So we have that increased bioavailability and the research behind curcuRouge.
Dr. Kara Fitzgerald: Okay. Cool. What else do we want to talk about regarding this amazing curcuRouge product? Clinical studies that are currently underway? We’ve already demonstrated that it’s really bioavailable, that it exceeds bioavailability and that therefore likely patients will not be required to take as much, and therefore ultimately it should be more effective and more affordable together, which is amazing. There’s research right now in cognitive decline?
Dr. Sonia Malani: Yeah, right. There’s a randomized double-blind placebo-controlled trial that’s underway that will study the effects of 450 milligrams of curcuRouge daily on cognitive function in adults that have mild cognitive impairment. That’s known as MCI, and this protocol has already been peer-reviewed and it’s been published, so we’re excited to see the results from that trial once it’s done.
Dr. Kara Fitzgerald: 450 milligrams as opposed to the two grams that you’re recommending. Is that correct, so it’s significantly less? Go ahead.
Dr. Sonia Malani: 450 milligrams of the curcuRouge. Just to give you an idea, so curcuRouge contains 40% of curcumin and two capsules of curcuRouge is 450 milligrams, and it contains 90 milligrams of curcumin. The trial that we just spoke about in the cognitive impairment actually has these participants taking two capsules of curcuRouge, which is that 450 milligrams that we’re speaking of.
Dr. Kara Fitzgerald: Okay, but this is less than what we were talking about before when you were recommending a full two grams to your patients of the previous preparation.
Dr. Sonia Malani: Exactly.
Dr. Kara Fitzgerald: This is less than half, so this is really in keeping with the improved bioavailability requiring less.
Dr. Sonia Malani: Right, exactly.
Dr. Kara Fitzgerald: Okay. That’s amazing.
Dr. Sonia Malani: Yeah, right, so it allows our patients to not have to swallow as many pills, which is super important as well. A lot feel sick and don’t want to have to worry about taking things twice a day and three times a day, so having a product where you know that the bioavailability is increased and that you’re getting that peak plasma concentration that is higher than previous delivery formats is really important for our patients.
Dr. Kara Fitzgerald: I’m excited to try it. I am. Are you recommending it with food, without? Are you recommending it to take it with fat? Probably doesn’t matter. This is some of the background recommendations that we standardly make, but we don’t necessarily need to?
Dr. Sonia Malani: Yeah, so in regards to with or without food, this one doesn’t really matter now that we have this amorphous structure. Then also it does not need to be combined with a fat because through the process of taking that crystalline structure, curcumin and creating an amorphous structure, you’ve actually increased the bioavailability from just that alone, so you don’t need to pair it with black pepper or a fat to help increase the bioavailability.
If you think about going back to that cotton candy example, if you just think about trying to mix sugar in a room temperature cup of water, how much force you have to put to get that sugar to dissolve in a cup of water versus putting cotton candy in that cup of water, it would melt directly. Right? So, think about it like that when we’re thinking about these curcumin preparations. That standardized curcumin extract is like those cubes of sugar that are really hard to… you have to mix and mix and mix before they dissolve, but this amorphous structure or amorphous format of curcumin is like that cotton candy, so you can put it right in water and it’s much more dispersible. It mixes with water a lot easier. That’s why we’re seeing the increased bioavailability.
Dr. Kara Fitzgerald: Awesome. Folks, I want to just bring your attention to our show notes where we’re going to gather together information about this new product, curcuRouge. We can also talk about, we can link to the previous preparations, the submicron product, et cetera. We’ll just gather everything that we can and pop it into the show notes for your own training and edification. All right, Dr. Malani, it was just really awesome to talk to you today. Is there any other piece that you want to mention about curcuRouge or have we covered the main stuff?
Dr. Sonia Malani: I think we’ve covered quite a bit.
Dr. Kara Fitzgerald: Oh, good.
Dr. Sonia Malani: I will just say that there is also a study using curcuRouge in joint health as well, and looking at whether it’s able to make a difference there. I imagine now that we have this delivery format, curcuRouge available, that there will be many more clinical trials underway. I’m sure maybe you and I would collaborate on one someday, but I think what’s really beautiful about the team behind curcuRouge as well is that they’re really committed to continuing this clinical research, so stay tuned.
Dr. Kara Fitzgerald: Yeah. Well, that’s been the case with Integrative Therapeutics for a long time. I think they’ve just been a real key player in our industry and functional medicine and naturopathic medicine for many years. Their commitment to the science has always been there, has always been there.
Dr. Sonia Malani: Yes.
Dr. Kara Fitzgerald: All right. Well, thank you so much for joining me today on New Frontiers.
Dr. Sonia Malani: Thank you.
Dr. Sonia Malani, FABNO, is a board-certified physician, author, and researcher. She graduated from Bastyr University, followed by a residency at AIMS Institute in Seattle, WA. Tenacious in understanding the root cause of disease, she is actively conducting research, currently working on clinical trials for complex cases, and to support Thrivers nationwide.